Mechanical

How Did This Happen?

How did we get to the point of an idiot uprising in the USA, peasants marching on Washington and demanding tax breaks for the rich and insisting they've no right to health care? I'm still in shock over the idiocy of tea baggers. I'm sure you've heard the line "French Revolution in reverse". It's true. It's, it's, well, retarded. Country after country after country has demonstrated that you can take care of your citizens and still enjoy a very high quality of life. Are Americans so completely stupid they can't even pay attention to basic data?

Er, yes. Frankly, I admire the Constitutional ideals of my native country, but the current crop of patridiots is an embarrassment.
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Yes, yes they are. Fortuntely all of us are not.
Are Americans so completely stupid they can't even pay attention to basic data?

Climate change deniers anyone? Seriously, I don't know how they manage to function, the cognitive dissonance would kill me! Too bad willful ignorance isn't instantly fatal, like an aneurysm popping wen they look at the mountains of data then make excuses why it can't be true.
I think this every single day, particularly when I see the impassioned rantings of folks from Back Home who really have ingested the 'protect the rich' Koolaid.

Also...
Remember Joe the Plumber? There is an ideation among conservatives that at some time in the near future, they will be rich.

It is very, very important to remember this when listening to idiots making less than $50K/year arguing against estate taxes and high capital gains taxes.
Re: Also...
I did see that about old Joe. However, he's not pro-Obama at all. He's a lot like the other Joe (should I be worried about my name?) who just crashed a plane into an IRS office in Austin, Texas. These guys are just plain Mad.
Re: Also...
I did once ask a friend of mine, who is a good friend and whom I love very much, why her politics had changed so much over the last few years (this was in 2002ish). She said, "I got tired of being poor." That remark hurt pretty bad. Particularly in the southern US, there is this idea that moral and good people are rewarded by becoming rich. If you're poor, clearly there is something wrong with you, you don't work hard enough, you aren't moral enough or good enough.
I'm just wondering if 'tea-baggers' means something different to those of US extraction ...
Boy howdy
You should know to never bet against stupidity. I have to keep reminding myself of this.

However the anger of the "tea baggers" is understandable, even if their proposed solutions are intensely misguided.

First, look at who are the tea baggers: middle aged white people. Why are they mad? They were sold a bill of goods called "employment" and "home equity loans" which were both products billed as "safe" and "dependable." Now many people's retirement and current standard of living has been compromised.

Why have they turned on their government? They believe that they get nothing for their taxes and that the federal government can do nothing right (except fight wars [which seems contrary to recent events]). Without daily exposure to Fox news and right wing radio, it is easy to forget how loud the message of government incompetence is trumpeted. The outrageous distortions of the press have led people to fear all of Obama's proposals. This fear, I fear, is entirely racially motivated.

What do they want? They want 1950's America again and who can blame them? Most of these folks do not understand the complexities of the world they live in today. They do not understand what the basis of 1950's prosperity was (a decimated Europe). In place of understanding, there is fear and anger.

In short: white people are scared and fear breeds madness. Scared people are easily manipulated by commercial interests threatened by this legislation.
Re: Boy howdy
There may be some racism behind this, but I doubt it's primarily racially motivated. I could be wrong, though.

And the end of the day, Obama gave them a tax cut and they're protesting that the wealthy and corporations didn't get them. Hell, they're even upset that they're getting denied basic health care, asking each other how to buy affordable meds from the Canadian health care system while they're complaining when our government tries to make sure they get health care! It boggles the mind.
Re: Boy howdy
> It boggles the mind.

I can't disagree with that.

There are tea baggers who are on government-provided health argument against government-provided health care.

Then again, there are Republican congressmen denouncing government effectiveness -- as if they weren't part of the problem.

What's next? Mafia dons complaining about organized crime?
French Revolution in reverse? Not quite- the French were also appalled when they were offered cake instead of bread... ;)
to me this
http://fee.org/library/books/not-yours-to-give-2/
is more the point.

Yes the Tea Baggers are off the deep end (just as the liberals and conservatives are off other parts of the deep end)

I am against the US government taking control of medical care because as bad as the private insurance companys have made things, I dont see that all the political BS and added layers of bureaucracy can make it better. Our Federal govenment gas gotten way out of control and I dont see that it can be fixed.
So what you're saying is that since every other major industrialized nation in the world has made universal health care work and the USA can't, the USA is fundamentally incompetent? Instead of being #1, we're dead last. We've a government of incompetent losers, but because it's elected, the USA is actually populated with losers too stupid to manage their own affairs at a basic level of need which other countries handle just fine? That's not very reassuring :)
"That's not very reassuring"

No, it's not.

I feel the US has developed differently than other countrys making it better and worse at the same time. Unfortunatly we have become a nanny state that has worked so hard to protect people from failing that failure is the result.
The US? A nanny state? I don't want to be rude and try to "pull rank" or anything here, but I've lived in four countries and travelled to many more. The US is far and away the least generous country in helping its citizens. There is virtually no safety net and in almost any other industrialized country, you'll find equally nice standards of living, but you'll have people are are a) enjoying 2 ro 3 times the vacation you get b) happier, c) living long (US isn't even in the world's top 30).

Compare the US to the world, and sure, it's a nanny state. But then you're comparing the US to Burkina Faso, Rwanda or other struggling nations. Compare the US to modern nations and it lags behind in just about every indicator except arrogance.

Edited at 2010-02-22 07:19 am (UTC)
Charity

So I read your link, but it draws the wrong conclusions. Section 8, Clause 1 of the US Constitution clearly states that the Congress has the power to collect taxes and make payments to ensure the general welfare of the United States and to make laws governing such.

Given that we have the most expensive medical system in the world and given that our incredible spending on medical care, per capita, is hurting our finances tremendously, reforming medical care is needed to promote the general welfare.

Also, just looking at economics, the foundations of modern economics lies in capital, land, and labor. For labor to be the most efficient it can be, it needs to meet several conditions:

  1. It must be mobile so it can go to where the jobs are.
  2. It must be educated so it can understand the work.
  3. It must be healthy enough to perform the work

The first is met by many countries via subsidised transportation systems which allow labor to travel where it's needed.

The second is met by most countries via free public education.

The third is met by every industrialized nation -- except the United States. The private system has failed in this regard, so Congress must address this issue if they are to meet their Constitutional mandate in section 8.1 to provide for the general welfare of the US. Thus, to not address the issue of health reform is a dereliction of their duty.

I'm not saying it has to be a government run option, but why is the USA the only country so incompetent that they are not able to handle such a fundamental issue?

Edited at 2010-02-20 10:33 am (UTC)

Re: Charity
I do not disagree with the points that you make. I agree that the system is badly broken, but I also believe that the way our government "works" with all the partisan BS and pet causes that the proposed "reform" can in no way improve the system in any sustainable way.

Living in CA I am seeing the results of too many social programs created when the economy was good and there was lots of extra money. All the programs have value, and now that they are in existance with employees and people counting on them closing them up would cause MAJOR problems.

The Governer's hands are tied as to where the budget can be cut. No one will vote out any of the expenses so there is no answer.

Unless we can flush the entire federal government and kill all the special interest involvment I dont see that adding government control to anything is a good idea.

The current banking situation stams from a feel good policy started in the late 60s to make mortgage insurance companys write a small percentage of policys for borrowers who would not quallify under the normal standards. This led to the insurance companys leaning on the lenders to write the notes. Once the banks saw thet there were sales commissions to be made on sub-prime paper the market went gangbusters up till the recent crash.

Yes I believe that our federal government is incompetent to handle the running of our medical care system. Too may "Nice" ides not thought out will ruin all of us.

BTW have you read Atlas Shrugged?